Music, Self-Acceptance, and Personal Growth with Wilamena Dyer

In this heartfelt and inspiring episode, I sit down with Wilamena Dyer to explore her journey living with Tourette Syndrome and OCD. We dive into the challenges, triumphs, and surprising lessons that come with embracing neurodiversity, self-acceptance, and resilience. Wilamena shares candid stories about her experiences with tics, coping strategies, and how music has become a transformative force in her life. We also discuss different therapies, creative outlets, and why finding what works for you is key to thriving with Tourette's. Join us as we talk about the power of advocacy, leaning into your unique strengths, and using creativity as a path to personal growth.

Wilamena Dyer is an alum of the NJCTS Tim Howard Leadership Academy. She is currently a first year university student studying percussion in London. 

Episode Highlights:

[0:53] - Kicking things off: Introducing Wilamena and her journey with Tourette Syndrome.
[3:04] - Wilamena's treatment toolbox: Medication, ERP, and the value of practical therapies.
[7:16] - A closer look at Habit Reversal Training (HRT) and its challenges.
[11:06] - How Wilamena’s tics evolved over the years and the resilience it built.
[15:33] - Michael’s story of managing a painful tic with distraction and multitasking.
[18:21] - Understanding "cousins" of Tourette's: Wilamena’s experience with OCD.
[22:10] - The uphill climb of ERP therapy and how it changed Wilamena’s life.
[24:05] - Wilamena’s future plans: Studying music therapy and spreading awareness.
[27:52] - Advice for the newly diagnosed: Embrace your tics and live fully.

Links & Resources:

• Wilamena's website: https://www.tictastic.com/ 
• Wilamena's youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClILmxZbGU8nX8oxrCLGcOg 

Remember, each story shared on this podcast brings light and understanding to the diverse experiences within the Tourette's community. Your journey is your own, and it's filled with potential and promise. If this episode resonated with you, I encourage you to like, share, and leave a review to help us connect with more listeners.

Transcript

Wilamena Dyer: 0:00

Now that I'm experiencing the world in a different way. It is, it is hard, and it is new sometimes, and sometimes you get off the bus being like, oh my god, that was awful, you know. Or the other day, I was on a bus and it was towards, like, the end of the day. It was like end of school time, so at 4pm on a random Wednesday, and you know, bunch of kids, you know, swore at me and called me a retard, and I got off the bus and I was like, that was rubbish. That was a really bad end of the day. But you know what? You just have to learn to shake it off sometimes, which is rubbish, because that shouldn't be your responsibility. But if you let every small thing get to you, you're never going to be able to get through life. So sometimes being able to laugh it off will be like, You know what? They don't know what's going on, and that's fine. I do.

Michael Leopold: 0:53

Welcome to the uptick, brought to you by The New Jersey Center for Tourette syndrome and associated disorders, empowering children and adults through education, advocacy and research, by sharing the stories and experiences relevant to the TS community. Because you've had a very complex case of Tourette, you know, and getting like I was reading on your site, writing about having pretty much full body tics and your whole body's in movement. And, yeah, I imagine you kind of can't keep that a secret for too long, like, just to guess, yeah, pretty much, you know, kind of my

Wilamena Dyer: 1:36

so I am on medication for my Tourette's, and the medication, pretty much on the whole, those like very intrusive, like much larger ticks, that tends to be what it controls, the sort of day to day tics as I go along, doesn't really touch, and that sort of just continues along as normal, unless I have, like, a free touring day or whatever, and I end up having a tic TAC so I sort of have plans in place so that the right people know what to do or what was going on, because obviously, with pics like that, they can look a lot worse than they actually are, kind of thing you don't don't want the people around you to have to panic or be in a situation where they feel they don't have enough information. I guess, right. So in that situation, I just, I very much feel that, like honesty and talking about it is so much easier. Yeah,

Michael Leopold: 2:26

so, and you don't have to share this if you don't want to, might be interesting to know a little bit of, like, the kind of the comprehensiveness of your treatment approach with it, like, if it's medication, if you also partake of like CB or like talk therapy, other relaxation techniques, and if you don't want to, like, name the drug you're on, like, I'm not asking that, but curious for our listeners to kind of see, I think, in the nature of it being like, this is a really complex condition, and often takes, you know, different approaches, pharmaceutical therapy, social occupational therapy, and you name it. We'd love to hear kind of how you approach that and what your web of treatment web of treatment has looked

Wilamena Dyer: 3:04

like. Yeah, definitely. I think because direct is so complicated and different for every single person, it can be quite a long process and continuously changing as as my ticks are always changing anyway, you sort of think you've just come to terms with something and you found the best solution, and then it all changes again. And you're like, Okay, square, that's fine. I know how this goes. But over my time, I've sort of, I like to think I tried a little bit of everything. At this point, I have been on pretty much on medication since I was about nine or 10. I have come on off it a few times. I've tried others, but I found what works for me, and for now, that still continues to do so. So that's something that has been pretty continuous throughout my sort of Tourette's life. I guess I've also tried a few sort of tick therapies. I tried two. They are quite hard to access in the UK, actually slightly less so now, but definitely when I was first ticking, I couldn't even get diagnosed where I live, which is like Cornwall. So the certain part of England, they had no capacity to so I had to wait for a referral to London, you know. So it was very like lengthy process. I, in fact, I got medicated before I was even diagnosed, because they weren't, they couldn't do that. So after a couple of years, I tried ERP, exposure response prevention, I'm pretty sure which I sort of describe these things as, like tools in your toolbox. They're not necessarily, they're not cures, they're not magic fixes, but they're ways to understand your tics better and put in like small things help with like day to day coping at the time, it really taught me about learning to recognize, like my tick urges and like noticing them and things I could do in. A small amount of time that I did have control over them, so like, learning to recognize the feeling, and, like, put down a glass of water, or get to the bottom of the stairs and what, and think how I'm feeling before I walked up them, so I was safe. Those, like small things really made, like, quite a big impact on my life. And may not have stopped any of the ticks, but that allowed me to, like, be more aware and conscious of it, if that makes sense.

Michael Leopold: 5:26

Yeah, it kind of integrates it into your life better. Gives you a little more con, I want to say control, but, like, management of it, pretty

Wilamena Dyer: 5:32

much. And at the time that was that was amazing. You know, I was struggling to, like, walk up and down the stairs on my own, like, without, like, a parent with me. So that was like, Oh, great. This is amazing. I can do that on my own. Now, you know, sometimes you have to take the small things, but at the time, they felt big. I

Michael Leopold: 5:50

mean, being able to walk up the stairs without, I mean, that shows the the Yeah, that would be a huge achievement. That's such a, you know, big Victor too. Yeah, at

Wilamena Dyer: 6:00

the time, massive, wow. I also tried HRT, habit response prevention. Weirdly, at the time that I had this I was struggling with tics that actually were quite hard to apply to this therapy. So I'm sort of going to generalize it quite a lot here, but the general principle of it is that you find sort of competing responses to the tics. So like, I have a tic that I feel like I need to punch the wall, do things like put your hand in your pocket, or like, hold your arm with your other hand. Things to physically put a slight block on it and hold yourself until the sort of tick goes away kind of thing. Obviously, it's probably a lot more complicated than that, but that's sort of how it works. At the time, I was struggling with quite a lot of like neck ticks, eye ticks, things that they were going, hmm, it's a bit more challenging. But even if, at the time, it wasn't able to be super useful. Once you've learned how how these things work, you can then sort of learn how to apply them by yourself in the future. So again, there's one of those small things you can add to the to the toolbox, for the toolbox

Michael Leopold: 7:17

of Yeah, tools to use and to our listeners. We've had a number of CBIT practitioners and HRT, I guess there's on the podcast have spoken. And I should note there, there are some differences in just the terminology here we're seeing like the states and versus the UK, and some of the terminology, like you said, HRP, habit response, prevention. And actually, I'm ignorant. We might say that here I hear more Habit Reversal training or, like, it's a kind of a side of, like, therapy, or therapy, yeah, like there's deviations or variations of it. And then also the finding a competing response is, is one of the parts of c bit that a lot of people do. But, yeah, they will interlink a little bit. A lot of it's the same, you know, same, same ideas, just different, different names we put on it, but glad to hear that that that's been something you've been able to integrate into your life and find find value in a lot of people do, and I think, you know, I encourage them to do that, because, like, we keep saying it's a trial and error process to find out what works for you, and then also, this stuff is hard. It takes time. I remember trying c bit when I was a kid, and I honestly kind of gave up. I was trying it at a very particularly stressful time of my life, when I was dealing with some depression, and school was really intense. I was in eighth grade, and it was, a lot was going on, but, you know, definitely

Wilamena Dyer: 8:35

not easy. You have to, yes, it's really hard

Michael Leopold: 8:38

it takes, you know, and I think that's why they recommend students here at least do this over the summer or something, when they when, hopefully, at least they don't have as much going on. But yes, because it's a lot, and I think we have to acknowledge that that, like, I don't know, this is a lot, it's hard to it can be hard to do for a lot of people, and keep pushing through it. And if you find you're trying something and not getting results, you know, give it its due, give it a give it the time that your your professional, your therapist says, and beyond that, then be be open to trying new things, because there's a lot out there that can help. I mean, we mentioned you and I just chatting before the call. We mentioned both of us, kind of coming up on, stumbling on, on Botox for ticks. You were considering it, and, and, but, you know, some some challenges with finding a provider around you. I did this during the pandemic for a really vicious teeth grinding tick, and I can say that that it literally saved my teeth. I was grinding my teeth viciously hundreds of times a day and chipping them. And I was like, this is this is going to be a problem. And, yeah, one dose of Botox in my jaw, a night and day difference, I would say, at least a 90% decrease in that tick. It was weird. It made it so, like, it almost, not almost. It took away the pre monetary urge for me, at least it drastically got rid of that, even the urge to do the tick. Yeah, and then if I would do the tick my jaw. Always a little weaker, and I, like, couldn't do it that well, but which oftentimes, like that can actually trigger a new tick, because then you're like, trying to satisfy the urge and trying to make it make the tick, but it didn't. It's like, at my brain or something. I just like, I didn't care. So I had a lovely experience with it. But long story short, there's tons and tons of tools out there, and your website does a great job of listing some of the ones you've tried that have worked. Chew toys also work. What are the two necklaces? You know, we love our we love toys. We love, yeah, fidgets we love. But that also was good in the meantime, while I was waiting for the Botox, scheduling was just to, like, chew on something else instead of my teeth. And also kind of help with my vocal tics a little bit too, which was, was interesting. But, you know, chewing gum. Find what works for you, I think, is kind of the the answer here, no, you mentioned that your tics still continue to evolve. They change. Have you found, like, I'm so eager to ask you this question, in like, five years or in 10 years, but like, have you found that they that that is still the case that you know, even in the last year or two, as you've gotten into adulthood, is it or do they still change a lot?

Wilamena Dyer: 11:06

I'd say they do change a lot. I feel like I went through a period more, sort of my early teenage years, where it was the change was slightly more dramatic, like I definitely went through years of it being a lot harder, and it's sort of staying more like that for prolonged periods of time. I'd say, now that I'm slightly older, it is sort of, there are lots of new, changing things. But if I'm honest, sort of my Tourette's has changed so much over the past, you know, basically my lifetime, but pretty much had most of it Not, not. There isn't much that is completely new anymore. We're getting boring. Don't

Michael Leopold: 11:45

say it too loud here, mother, Tourette, in your brain, I'll be like, I heard you wake up with your take tomorrow.

Wilamena Dyer: 11:50

Yeah, I tend to go. What I do notice is that I tend to describe my Tourette's instead of waves, where there's like the larger, bigger curves of waves. And within that there's like, all the small ones, like the daily, the weekly, and there's like, much larger curve. And within those, like smaller dips, I often go through like phases of sometimes being a lot more vocal, sometimes not being vocal for like a month and being like, whoa. This is weird. And then the next month, I can't stop talking. Oh, I can't stop ticking verbally. So in that way, it still changes a lot, but I'd definitely say that there isn't much that is brand new anymore. I'd say

Michael Leopold: 12:32

makes sense. Yeah, you do? You know, kind of, I've seen a lot of it by the time you you've had it for a number of years, and it still can change, and often does, right? At the very least, I think you're kind of used to dealing with it, if that makes sense, you kind of know what you got to do. You know your body, you know? Like, okay, this is what it feels like to get a new tick. Like,

Wilamena Dyer: 12:50

yeah, I think a big thing that I found is, like, it gives you so much resilience. You've got to think outside the box. You get something new. It changes their life overnight, right? How are we dealing with this today? Is it gonna stay for like, 24 hours? Is this thick gonna take kick? Going to stay for a week? Or is this gonna be, you know, the next five years of my life? I think you sort of have to very much learn to take it day by day and work out sort of what you're gonna do to help yourself out in that moment, which I think in my more early years was really frustrating and, like, so upsetting at times. But as you get older, it's, you know, something changes, and you're like, oh, okay, you know, what are we gonna do with this now? But that resilience is like, something that I think, but it's good to sort of recognize and be like, Yeah, I knew. Like, I'm gonna find a new age deal. But with this, I'm gonna pick myself up and, you know, work it out.

Michael Leopold: 13:50

I have a tick that I get every now and then where I bite my tongue and I will my tongue, like I rip the skin off it. It's awful. It's the most painful tick. And I'm like, sitting at home with, like, just an ice pack on my tongue, like, all day when I get this tick and, like, to stop the bleeding, it's anyway, I don't want to be too like, like, visual with that, but, but it is, well, probably my most painful tech that I have. I'm just, like, biting my tongue as hard as I can, like, throughout the day, and it's annoying, because when I feel that that tick comes on maybe once every, I don't know, three months or so. And when it does, it stays, I know, I get like, a week and a half or so, two weeks where, like, it's gonna be at its peak. But what I have found is when I start feeling it coming on, like, the first day, and I'm like, Oh no, here we go again. Like, I'm I like, oh, there's a there's an interesting spot on the side of my tongue, I'm gonna bite it. Oh, I bit it. Okay, let's do that again. You could, like, feel the like, tick coming on, like a tick being created in your head. And I'm like, No, I can't I can't get I can't do this again. I can't get sucked into this. And I am learning to find ways to, kind of not to distract myself. From it, but just to try to ward it off, so that when I first start noticing that tick coming on that first day, I can kind of prevent it from being a week and a half of Michael's torturing his tongue, yeah, and I'm, you know, how I do that, it's going to vary, you know, person to person. You know, for me, it is a matter of, I have to go distract myself. I I'm very social. I will go talk to my partner, go talk to somebody, and be like, I need to get this tick out of my head. Like, just distract me, yeah, grab a video game and have music playing and be chomping on an Apple all the same, same time. Like,

Wilamena Dyer: 15:33

so, yeah, multitasking is the cage you have to be doing just right

Michael Leopold: 15:38

from this, please. Like, anything. But when I do that, I the last two times that I felt that tick coming on, I've, I pretty I've warded it off from being, you know, or mitigated it from being, like, turning into a, you know, a week and a half or two weeks of of a really nasty experience. And, you know, knock on wood. I hope I can keep that the next time the tick rears its ugly head. But I think it's empowering to me to see like, wow, I actually, like, I do have a little bit more management control, in a way, over it than I thought I did, yeah,

Wilamena Dyer: 16:12

like, self awareness, if not,

Michael Leopold: 16:15

like, it's not control it, it's, it's yeah, it's like, a I can do things to kind of redirect it, or make it like, yeah, minimize the impact it's going to have on me. Yeah.

Wilamena Dyer: 16:25

So I think you're talking about a really important tool, which is, like, learning how your brain works fundamentally, like multitasking. This might not be everyone with Tourette's. This is a massive, you know, generalization, but I know that the way my brain works, if I want, if I've got something, then I need to get done, whether that's work or, you know, a piece of academics, or, like, filling in a form, like anything, I know that the way I'm going to get that done is, if I've got a TV show in the background, music in one ear, and, you know, I'm eating something, there's got to be I know that if I've got a chance of getting anything done, I've got to be multitasking. Even if I'm like, like, having downtime. I'm relaxing. I'm going to have, you know, my TV show on, and I'm going to be watching that, but I'm also going to be doing like, a puzzle or doodling or literally anything. And that's weird to some people, because I know people are like, Oh, I can't concentrate unless it's like silence. And I've only got that one thing I could possibly do, and honestly, I I'd never be able to do anything if my life was like that, but understanding that about myself and like learning the things you can sort of combine, I think, is quite important.

Michael Leopold: 17:27

Our brains are powerful, and a lot of people can do multiple things at once. And if you don't, if you take someone like that and you say, no, just focus on this one activity, write this paper or watch this movie, nothing else, their brain is still going to be like trying to do other things, and that means that it might linger on your ticks and go to that. And so your brain's going to find something else to do, whether that's with my ADHD and my daydream and go to another place in my head, or I start ticking. So you might as well be on top of that. And for those of us that whose brains are like this, yeah, find a way to utilize that what your brain naturally wants to do. One, one thing we haven't chatted as much about. We focused a lot on ticks and to read. Want to also hear your thoughts on OCD and in adulthood, if that's still something that that's a presence in your life, and how that's continuing or not to impact you, would love to hear your experience with that.

Wilamena Dyer: 18:22

Yeah, definitely. So my sort of, actually, in the UK, we have an interesting term we call sort of comorbidities, of Tourette's. We call them cousins, cousins. I hope it's sometimes a term that's used. They're not siblings, but they are. They're cousins. You know, they're related, they're their own problems, but they come as a package. So if I refer to them as that, that's, that is why I

Unknown: 18:44

like that. Yeah, it's a complicated family, yeah.

Wilamena Dyer: 18:48

But I think OCD sort of came into my life, probably when I was about, actually from quite a young age, but only sort of recognized when I was about 11 or 12, and it came in strong, you know, it actually for quite a long chunk of time, that was something I was struggling the most with. And it was actually, at times it was harder to explain to people, sometimes than my tics. For some reason, you know, it's, it's a very bizarre condition. It's so irrational. But to you, it is so real. Every switch whatever, yeah, it feels just your reality. And you you can know that, like I know that if I turn this light switch on and off, like I know in reality, no one's gonna die, nothing bad is gonna happen. But that part of your brain that's telling you, that's telling you that something is is so massive, and that for someone that has no idea what you're talking about is bizarre, and I totally get that, but was something that really ruled my life for quite a long time, but I was lucky to be given CBT therapy. Me for it, and one of the hardest things I've ever had to do was that, I think it was hard work and slightly grueling at times, but it paid off so well for me personally, it it was amazing. I haven't experienced my OCD in the same way, since I find myself still having the thought patterns. So I'll realize that I've, like, tried to sit in the same chair a few times, but now I'm like, Oh, that's a bad idea. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to make a point of sitting somewhere else. And honestly, it completely changed my life, and I'm very lucky that it did, but it wasn't easy.

Michael Leopold: 20:46

Yeah, no, it often is not, but not easy. But you mentioned doing ERP, and that, you know, I think, falls under the C CBT umbrella, cognitive behavioral therapy and has helped so many people, is really the gold standard for treating OCD. So glad to hear that that that helped with with with your experience. What do you think about it made it so challenging.

Wilamena Dyer: 21:07

I think that because of the nature of OCD being so although it's so irrational, it is so real to you and often quite distressing, like the thoughts behind it, they're not nice, you know, whatever the obsession or the compulsion is, you're doing it for a reason that's often quite negative. You know, you're doing it because you think something bad is going to happen, whatever that thing might be. And everything in your brain is telling you the opposite, you know, is telling you you need to do this thing, because otherwise something bad could happen. So trying to go against that at first especially, is immensely difficult and and sort of does feel like the world's going to end, but it's just knowing that over time, it gets so much easier. You know, you start with the small things, and you sort of work your way up, and eventually you don't have to think twice. And knowing that, like that freedom that you can get from that is amazing, but it's definitely, it's definitely a mountain to climb.

Michael Leopold: 22:10

It is, and one that's best started as soon as you can. I recommend this stuff for children. I was diagnosed with turret back in, gosh, what was like? 2003 I think. And I was, you know, seven, eight years, about eight years old, and I just to see how far we've come in terms of what's out there. Now I'm such an old person, which is like, Oh

Wilamena Dyer: 22:33

no, as a kid, we were, you know, it was true. So fast moving comes

Michael Leopold: 22:37

up a lot on these episodes, because I find we're also we often talk about, just like, the stereotypes of Tourette and how that's evolved. You know how often Now I mentioned I have to write like, when I disclose and I they reply to me something like, Oh, what are your tics? Or more like, Oh, my cousin has that. Or so and so, and there's, there's just general familiarity with it. Now that and I know things are different between the the States and the UK. I I actually had 80 on my my podcast. Here's one of the first people I had on, like, a year or so ago, and he spoke a lot to this on on a lot of the work being done there to address stereotypes around, you know, the cochraneal, yeah, and all of that, but generalizing that to everybody, but, but, yeah, I think we have seen a lot in the last 1010, to 20 years on, in terms of treatment resources and getting that out there, I think now there's still an issue of access, teletherapy, telehealth, like, we're really trying to bring these things that we know have helped a lot of people, get them into more households and increase access to that is a big is very key, but, but no, like there, it's reassuring to me and not and makes me hopeful, because I have honestly seen progress, and it's a testament to, yeah, all the great people working in this, in this space and doing the little they can. Would love to hear a little bit about your future plans. So you are a first year student in percussion, uh, studying in London. And what? What's the, you know, what's the, what's the five year plan? Will Amina, what are you doing? Oh, five year plan. That's too stressful. This is supposed to be a conversation, just what would what would you like to do?

Wilamena Dyer: 24:06

Continue growing my love for music. I've got four years of study ahead of me, so that's quite a long time. Hopefully I'll advance something by the end. I think if anything, moving to London has sort of taught me that, although I may come across, as, you know, very comfortable and confident about my tics and my Tourette's and I am if you catch me on a good day, it doesn't mean that when I'm on the bus or the tube heading into college that I feel like I need to suppress or I get self conscious, or I get comments, you know, that that is still sort of part of My life, but that hopefully, now that I'm sort of out in the world, will start to become more normal, and sort of my hope for myself is that I can continue to embrace it in sort of every aspect of my life. I guess I'm also interested in the future, in looking into because I'm. Currently I'm studying performing and but I'd love to study music therapy and how and sort of introducing music into other people's lives to sort of show to them how much music can help, because it helped me so much, and I want other people to be able to access that in the same way. I guess

Michael Leopold: 25:20

I love that. Have you? Have you done music like, music therapy yourself in, like, a formal setting? Or are you just, like, playing an instrument can be therapeutic. It can help.

Wilamena Dyer: 25:30

It's more love that. But I'm very much interested in all the aspects that can can be used. It's

Michael Leopold: 25:35

huge. Music therapy, art therapy, finding creative expression and outlets. We often talk about Tourette, as you know, the downsides of it and as we know it can also be our superpower and empower our life in really unique ways and traits that we have. I mentioned, you know, the sight reading for me, and music being something I was really, like, excited to learn, or that I was just good at. I think I'm an idea generator, and I am good at coming up with ideas, and I really attribute my ADHD? Attribute that to my ADHD. Yeah, in what ways would you say ticks and OCD are have given you superpowers? I

Wilamena Dyer: 26:09

think that because Tourette's is such like sort of it's so ever changing, and it can affect you in so many different ways, I actually think that it's sort of touched in a positive way. In most aspects of my life, obviously, there have been, you know, massive negative things and things that have been really tough. I think that, you know, socially, it's, you know, helped me to become very, sort of compassionate and empathetic and but I'm very interested in, you know, advocacy for, personally, Tourette's, but that, you know that applies then to other things, and advocating for, for, you know, anything I believe in. So it's helped in, like, social context, obviously for me, musically, even, you know, back at school, our brains, you know, everyone's brains are wired uniquely. But I think especially with Tourette's, once you harness what that means for you, and sort of working out whether that means that you're going to think outside the box, or that your ideas are going to be like really free flowing, or there are so many different things that that might mean for you, and sort of learning how you can then use that to your advantage, I think, but it's quite a big thing,

Michael Leopold: 27:23

huge. I think everyone you know, everyone's different, and finding what works for you is critical, and finding how it uniquely benefits you is a big piece of that, like self discovery, self learning, because it could also surprise you in a lot of different ways that you wouldn't expect. Any advice that you would give to recently diagnosed people with Tourette Syndrome? Such a broad question, but I ask everybody this, and just to hear what you what comes to mind, anybody about tics, Tourette, OCD, neurodiversity?

Wilamena Dyer: 27:52

Think I've got something. I think the moment that I fully embraced my tics and my Tourettes, and it took a good few years. In my case, I think the quicker you can manage to do that and feel fully comfortable in it, the sooner you can fully start to enjoy your life. You know, the moment you can stop caring about stepping outside your front door and going out in the world and stop correcting the only thing you can think about, I think then you can sort of start to live your life a bit more. I know it's very simple, but just, and it does take time, but just trying to really embrace it and live your life as fully, including the tics as you can

Michael Leopold: 28:38

Beautiful. Well, I mean, it's been lovely having you on the podcast here. Really appreciate all of your thoughts, your stories, your insights. I think our listeners have a lot to take away here. And appreciate any final remarks or anything else on your mind before we close. Just

Wilamena Dyer: 28:52

thank you so much for having me. Honestly, it's been really lovely to chat and yeah, love any opportunity to chat things, chat things Tourettes or life in general.

Michael Leopold: 29:01

Happy to do that. Yeah. Reach out. Wilhelmina Dyer, Her website is, and I'll put this in our notes as well. It is tick tastic.com. She writes about growing up with Ts and OCD resources, challenges and how to how to work through those, and links to her YouTube channel where she's done some cool stuff, like, what was it that tick miss and tick Miss day? What was that like a 12 days of tick miss? Oh yes, uh yes. So she's done things like tick miss and the 12 days of of tick miss, and a number of video series, great stuff at checkout. Will Amita, thanks again. Really appreciate your time and good luck with everything.

Wilamena Dyer: 29:41

Thanks so much.

Michael Leopold: 29:45

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