Your Guide to Accommodations in Education and Employment

In this episode, I sit down with Ray Nardella, the Assistant Director of Resident Life for Student Conduct at the University of Maryland. Ray shares his extensive experience with public policy, disability law, and grassroots organizing, all while adding a touch of humor and warmth to our conversation. We discuss securing accommodations for individuals with Tourette's syndrome and other disabilities in various settings, from education to the workplace. Whether you're preparing for exams or navigating job accommodations, Ray offers practical advice and valuable insights to help you advocate for your needs effectively.

We also explore the broader implications of disability rights, discussing everything from legal protections to practical tips for everyday life. Ray’s passion for empowering individuals shines through as he provides a comprehensive guide to understanding and utilizing accommodations. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to better understand their rights and the resources available to support them.

Episode Highlights:

[1:31] Discussing Accommodations: From High School to Graduate School

[5:38] How to Get Accommodations for Graduate School Exams

[10:03] The Importance of Detailed Documentation

[12:45] Navigating Workplace Accommodations

[17:11] Legal Rights and Disclosure in the Workplace

[20:23] Practical Tips for Talking to Supervisors

[23:33] Accommodations Beyond Education and Employment

[27:50] Understanding Disability Rights in Different Sectors

[30:04] Legal Clinics and Pro Bono Work for Disability Rights

[32:08] Ray’s Personal Insights on Parenting and Tourette Syndrome

[35:23] Reflecting on Childhood and Advocacy

Links & Resources:

Job Accommodation Network: https://askjan.org/ 

Remember, each story shared on this podcast brings light and understanding to the diverse experiences within the Tourette's community. Your journey is your own, and it's filled with potential and promise. If this episode resonated with you, I encourage you to like, share, and leave a review to help us connect with more listeners.

Transcript

Ray Nardella: 0:00

Working with your supervisor, your human resource department, a let them know what accommodations you need be seeing where their company or their workplace falls in the ADEA categorization, so that you, they could have a good idea of what they're entitled to. And then seeing working with your counselor and your doctor to get that paperwork recommendations.

Michael Leopold: 0:23

Welcome to the apptech brought to you by The New Jersey Center for Tourette syndrome and associated disorders, empowering children and adults through education, advocacy and research by sharing the stories and experiences relevant to the TS community. Welcome back to the uptick. I'm speaking with Ray Nardella, the Assistant Director of resident life for student conduct at the University of Maryland, where he's also a deputy title nine coordinator. Ray is interested in public policy, disability law, grassroots organizing, and most importantly, coffee from Dunkin and Wawa. I have known Ray for almost a decade now about solid eight years. We met at the Tim Howard Leadership Academy back in 2016. And we both started as staff that year. Some fun facts about raise background. So he he is a justice of the peace. So he can officiate your wedding or give you a parking ticket. He's a notary public in the state of Maryland. And he's a Certified Clinical and military counselor. Ray. It's great having you on the podcast here.

Ray Nardella: 1:32

Yeah, Mike, I'm really excited to be here. And like you said, it's going on a decade of us knowing each other and happy to jump in and chat. Likewise,

Michael Leopold: 1:40

glad to have you on here. The big topic to kick things off is accommodation. We put a lot of resources and talk and planning into helping supporting young people with Tourette children, young adults, as you and I both said before, there's a lot of opportunity to speak to the young adults and also adulthood and at that that's a point where many of us are going back to grad school, or we're in grad school preparing for those final exams. I know you had the experience of of taking the bar exam. I know people doing GRE GMAT, I think it could be interesting to talk a little bit about what that process can look like for someone with Tourette or another condition where you might be considering getting accommodations, sort of best practices for that how you manage that. I use the same paperwork I used in high school to get me the SATs stuff. Yeah, we'd love to just kind of open it there with a broad question and let you take it from there. I know you have no shortage of of brilliant ideas here.

Ray Nardella: 2:33

I appreciate the kind words, Mike and yeah, it's a combinations. It's one of those things that are so multifaceted. And like you said, adding accommodations in high school, typically is vastly different than employment and in college and grad school, etc. On high school, we often have either IEP or 504 plans, something to that effect. And usually it's worked on with a school psychologist or a school counselor that typically is almost 100% different than what that looks like. And I'll start with college, and then I'll kind of go up from there. But I should say 100%, maybe there's some similarities, folks could definitely use their same physician, their same counselor or social worker to work on documentation with but the process by which somebody is seeking those accommodations is automated degrees, definitely, the law mandates in our pre K through 12 education system, especially in public schools, counselors, and social workers and teachers are required to seek out those students who they think might be disabled, or have a disability, Tourette's, ADHD, autism spectrum, mobility issues, right? It ranges the spectrum, in post high school world. For the most part, there's some exceptions to that. But for the most part is the post high school and post secondary school world. It's incumbent upon the student themselves, or the person or the employee themselves, to do just that. So when you go off to community college, or a four year school, or graduate school, or law school or medical school, insert, the military, whatever the case is insert vocation here, it's going to be up to that individual person to say, this is what I might have had in high school and middle school. This is what I want to have in college or at work. It's up to me now to do that. And that's a really big mindset change, right? That's very different. And it can be tough, be really scary to say something that my school counselor or my school psychologist or social worker might have done for 12 1314 years. It's now up to me. Good news is it's not all up to me, right? Like the first step. rests with me and right I have to I have to say, I am going to go to my disability resource center. I'm going to go to my supervisor to age Charge human resources and apply for these accommodations. But the systems in place are there to help you it's important to recognize that even though the I'm gonna say the burden, but even though the impetus rests with me now instead of those who are kind of working with me, there still are systems in place to, to help out. That's

Michael Leopold: 5:21

a big thing for kids to adjust to. Yeah, the onus is a lot more on the the individual as you go through life to advocate for these things. When it comes specifically to some of the graduate school exams, you like the GRE, GMAT accommodations are available for those, how do we go about getting those?

Ray Nardella: 5:39

I would emphasize starting early, I think the first step is working with your psychologist or your psychiatrist, your diagnosing professional, whoever you've been working with, to get your Tourette's diagnosis to get any comorbid any comorbidity diagnoses, continue working with that, you'll need documentation typically, it's a little more advanced than what you'll need in the system, when you have your IEP or 504 plan. Typically, they're going to want to specifically know what you're not able to do based on your disability in our case based on Tourette's or any comorbidities. So it requires a little more really boils down to administrative paperwork on the on the doctor or the psychologists are. But a lot of the the process itself is similar to getting accommodations in schools, I'd say start early, I'd say any kind of exam that you're taking, whether it's SATs, the L SATs, the GRE, the MCAT, whatever, professional then you're taking for school, they're required, again, by law by the Americans with Disabilities Act and Section 504 Rehabilitation Act to have a combination for folks with disabilities. Going back to that mindset, it's going to be up to the person taking the exam to seek out how to contact either in that office or that board, or whatever folks are in charge of the disability accommodations. And usually could Google like SATs, disability combination and GRE disability, and it'll pop up who exactly is in charge of that, but it's going to be up to that person to do that. And it's going to also be up to that person to work with their their doctor or their counselor to get that documentation, I'd say have a really good idea of when you're talking to your counselor or your doctor, as to how your tics or your comorbidity symptoms will directly affect your ability to sit for the SATs. Do you have a tip that looks like you're cheating, because that was one of my looking around? Or? Yeah, actually, I took the bar exam during COVID. That's what everything was worth. And for my my budding attorneys and our listening, I highly discourage taking the bar exam, virtual, I don't even think they can anymore. But when I took it, it was at the height of COVID is because of the software that I have to install on my computer to take it and actually flagged me for excessive movement, which of course I have access to I have the game right, so it flagged me for that. And I had to go through tons of appeals processes and paperwork through the bureaucratic process to try to convince a very ableist group of folks as to why I wasn't cheating, but that goes back again to having a good understanding of your tics or, or your symptoms, whatever your symptoms are. For any, like I said, comorbidity is ADHD getting in the way of others, oh you got is your or your ADHD symptoms getting in the way, being able to sit down and concentrate for more than five minutes. That would be a direct interference with a task. So having a good idea of how your symptoms were getting in the way starting early. Also letting your physician or your counselor know exactly what kind of exam you're taking things. Sometimes folks will say, Can I have this blanket Letter of Accommodation that covers me, you really want to steer away from that you really want to try to like, first of all, it's likely that you're paying for this letter, or your insurance is paying for this letter, if you're working with a physician or a social worker, counselor, whatever. So working with your practitioner to make sure they understand the nuances of the task, they're going to understand the nuances of Tourette's or ADHD, OCD, etc. So it's going to be up to them and up to you to to piece those two things together, so that they can come up with a very unique and adaptable packet of documentation for the exam committees. So really having a really a good idea of your unique situation in your task. Hurray. Nardella I have Tourette's OCD, and panic disorder and I'm sitting for the bar exam. And difficulties I'm going to have are that my tics are doing ABC, my movements are doing XYZ. So again, having that very succinct, you and connected ability to present information is going to be important.

Michael Leopold: 10:04

I imagine you also have the ability to upload proof that you've been receiving accommodations already. I know he was in high school or so in some ways, this can be helpful at basically establishing a pattern of or a history of you having gotten these and use them. It's

Ray Nardella: 10:17

not easy to get accommodations, there's a lot of paperwork that goes into it, there's a lot of tests and assessments that you have to go through. I know a lot of students who I've worked with who actually didn't even have a diagnosis of formal official diagnosis before, they chose to go through the accommodations process. And they have to get a diagnosis out of that, which is great because having a diagnosis is really powerful. And it's usually not cheap, right. So it's usually a privilege to be able to go through the process to have that. So if you are going through that work with your beliefs at the college level, work with your counselors, their work with folks to make sure that you're you're setting yourself up for success. Typically, like you said, there will be a portal when I did it back in the day, I graduated college in 2011. But when I did graduate, when I was in college, if I had my accommodations, I met with a counselor, one on ones, typically there will be a one on one interview or meeting either virtual in person, they'll go through your paperwork and determine what accommodations make the most sense, a common misnomer is that somebody who has a diagnosis ability could have all the combinations in the world. That's right. It's their accommodations that are reasonable accommodations, that makes sense, given a diagnosis. In my experience, typically, they're fair accommodations, and they, they help folks get to sort of an even playing field, but they're not going to be unlimited accommodations. But yeah, like you said, usually, there's a portal that you can upload information to usually you'll have a one on one interview with a counselor for Maryland, we call the accessibility and disability services. But every institution has their own specific office that's called so I'm a little different. I know what my undergrad was called the Disability Resource Center. So make sure you touch base with those folks, have your documents ready if you already have those. But I would really caution folks not to rely just on high school documentation because of the intricacies that you're going to need in college. Right, you might need some in your dorm, that's totally different from what you need in your classroom. That's totally different from what you need in maybe Student Government Association. If you're an SGA. And you want accommodations, you can get those, but those might look different. Have a good idea of your individual needs, and go from there. Love that. No,

Michael Leopold: 12:31

that's great advice, and actually segues well into the next question, which is similar? How does it work in the corporate world for jobs, if you could walk us through what that process looks like when you're when you're on the job looking for accommodations? Yeah,

Ray Nardella: 12:45

sometimes we get so caught up in accommodations for school and education as we should, it's really important. But sometimes I think, employment accommodations, I know I didn't take advantage of them as much as I could have, just because it seems like this daunting, bureaucratic process. And spoiler alert, it is. But that's not that's not to say we shouldn't go through them. And it also very much depends on individual places. Right? It's not always daunting. I was just, I was just trying to,

Michael Leopold: 13:15

I've seen it in many cases be easier and less though it was faster than it than it is for students. It always depends. But I have definitely seen some cases where it was very smooth. Like why I wish it were this easy in college.

Ray Nardella: 13:30

Honestly,

Unknown: 13:31

it always varies.

Ray Nardella: 13:32

I've had the privilege of working at large state agencies on my careers. Sometimes it's the little

Michael Leopold: 13:37

i's are dotted T's to check and paperwork. And there

Ray Nardella: 13:40

is but what you know, it's not to say that you shouldn't, that equals the approval, it really does depend if you work for the government, if you work for a private employer, if you're if you're self employed, you have all the combinations you want. But there's a few different laws that protect folks in the appointment sector. So the Americans with Disabilities Act is one of them in educational settings. So if folks work in educational setting, it could be anything from a daycare to a large university to a community college to, in some cases, even a hospital or in some healthcare sectors, you might be protected by title sevens, and Title Nine, depending on on what your exact disability is, and depending on where you work, but start with having a conversation with your supervisor, your direct supervisor, could be a little bit of a daunting conversation depending on how we our relationship is with the supervisors. In contrast, it could be a fine conversation, right? I know sometimes, I've worked with folks who are like my supervisor know how they're going to take it like I want them to be able to trust me and a lot of those worries come into play well, are they going to think the same as me or they're going to think that I'm not able to do my job, all this stuff? It really is similar to the advice that we give folks when it comes to things like dating when it comes to things like disclosure to teachers. It's really not too much different than that disclosing to your supervisor and Trying to get the confidence to have that conversation is important. Usually when you have that conversation, they will connect you with human resources. And you're going to do a lot more of this than I will just be as your HR background. But typically from there, they'll work with you to try to figure out what combinations you need. Is it advisable based on your counselor or your doctor to virtually work two days a week, instead of go to the office five days a week? Do your tics get in the way of keyboard use on a computer? And are there technological combinations that employer could offer to help you with that? Does your OCD impair you to the extent that you can, for example, have an office near a restaurant, right, you have an alternative office location. So all these different things that take into consideration, but the thing to really highlight is you're going to know yourself the best, right? Very similar to what we tell folks and a lot of other aspects of turret advocacy. So starting with your supervisor, they should connect you with HR. The other really important thing to know is we talked a lot about your individual workplace, the ADEA gives very specific parameters for when accommodations could kick ass usually, if it's if there's more than 10 people working at a place. And some cases, it's more than 100, I would advise folks to really check in with their HR department or manager or whoever runs their human resources functions to get an idea of how their company is classified or how their workplace is classified because a government agencies going to look different than a restaurant which is going to look different than an office setting. So working with your supervisor, your human resource department, a let them know what accommodations you need be seeing where their company or their workplace falls in the ABA categorization. So that you, they could have a good idea of what they're entitled to. And then see working with your counselor and your doctor to get that paperwork or accommodations.

Michael Leopold: 16:57

I have a legal follow up question here. I'm going to put your law degree to us here shouldn't be a hard one. If I want to get accommodations at my place of employment, do I have to disclose the name of my disability? No,

Ray Nardella: 17:12

it's a really good question. You don't and employers can't legally ask that question. You know, when I was talking before about framing, disclosing, that's obviously a very sensitive topic. And folks should absolutely feel empowered to disclose when they want, there's not a legal obligation to disclose there is a legal obligation to get documentation from a physician or counsellor. But that could be as simple as dear accompany re knees accommodations. Those include working virtually two days a week, right? And might be a little more should be a little more in depth than that. But the employer cannot legally ask any follow up questions, right? Whatever is in that documentation is in it. If the physician or the counselor or social worker in turn is like you know what, in order for Mike to have these accommodations, his workplace should really know he has Tourette's, because there's too much of a nexus there too much of a of a crossover for them to not, that will be up to the physician in you to have that conversation. But if the physician of the culture was like, No, we can give you these accommodations and disclose minimal information, then the worker is not legally allowed to do that. Yeah, don't

Michael Leopold: 18:22

make sense. I'm not mentioned in many cases, it's probably easier for you if you can disclose that and give them that information. But again, that's your right, whether you share that or not is your choice. One free source I recommend is a really good website called Ask json.org as K J A n.org. stands for Job Accommodation Network, the JSON acronym. What's neat about that site is there's templates and stuff on there where if you just want to do all this in writing, you can like send a message accommodation request to HR over email using a template on their site. Like they make it very easy. They also have a on their homepage, you can sort basically by diagnosis. And Tourette syndrome is one of the ones listed, you can go to their Tourette Syndrome page, and it lists out specific accommodations that have helped many people with Tourette in the workplace. And it's not an exhaustive list, but actually is pretty lengthy. There's a lot of breed examples on there ones I had never thought about. And you could even break print that out and bringing that into to your employer as well as part of your discussion around Hey, I think this would really benefit me. And here's why. It's just a great wealth of information on accommodations for your specific diagnosis, along with templates you can use to get that conversation started. So let's ask john.org I do recommend them. It is a good resource. There's also Q and A's on there, like what can you do if the company says no for some reason, when you get pushback? And then how do I handle that there's templates for the physician to make it easier. I was pleasantly surprised to find that a lot of physicians like when you ask them for that accommodations letter. I mean, I can't promise your experience will be like this but it A lot of times it's pretty straightforward. So if that helps alleviate any of the stress or anxiety people might have in going through this process know that asking your doctor for the accommodations might be the easiest part. Because they they probably have a template they use already for this and they put your name on it and notes about you and your background and, and they'll print that off, send it to you and you give that to your company. The

Ray Nardella: 20:23

scariness sometimes of talking to somebody supervisor, I think sometimes originates from a skillset deficit, right? Like, if I go to my supervisor, I say, I can't control my text, I need this accommodation, are they going to make them less? Right? I noticed that a lot with folks sometimes. And I think some of it is being aware of this relationship you have with your supervisor. And if it's not a great one, go into somebody else, that the company could be really good. But sometimes I think it starts with that, oh my gosh, I don't want them to think I'm not able to do

Michael Leopold: 20:56

a performance review. I do care about what my boss thinks of me. I am nervous having to bring up things like this isn't very normal feelings like like typical common feelings to have any other thoughts come to your mind around accommodations, either in the workplace or higher education, anything like that, what

Ray Nardella: 21:12

I would really encourage folks in general, to take advantage of accommodations. Whenever I'm doing advocacy work in Tourette's, I'm talking a lot about this idea that we have a lot of ways have a different disadvantage, right? Because of different things that will go through different life situations, different diagnoses. So the concept of accommodations, especially in education, and in the workplace, are put in place for a reason. There's a legal reason there's a social reason, but they're put in place for a reason. Whenever I'm talking to somebody, they're like, Yeah, I have all these symptoms, but I'm not going to use these accommodations, because it's too burdensome of a process or because I don't think it'll be approved. I really can't stress enough to really consider using it a lot of folks who I've worked with students and otherwise, they really have been the make or break, right, like in a successful career as a student or an employee. And that's what they're there for. They're there to make sure folks are successful. So to make sure that folks are given an equitable lens to do their their work in. So I really, yeah, just I can't stress that enough tools

Michael Leopold: 22:23

and resources that we have, whether that's therapy, whether that's medication, whether that's accommodations, we wouldn't tell a visually impaired person that they can't wear glasses or or you know, have a walker. So these are the tools that we have to help us function in a neurotypical world if you think you would need them and benefit from them.

Ray Nardella: 22:42

Really, other quick thing I'll say about accommodations is typically we look at him in terms of education and employment, but we have accommodations and housing, we have accommodations, and travel and transportation, basically, every sector of society you could think of, they'll be in large part because they are legally required to write, they'll be an opportunity to seek some kind of accommodation. Sometimes we think of like you said, mobility concerns, or stuff like that, as being the disability that lack a better phrase should take precedence. But symptoms vary so much from individual to individual. So making sure that wherever you're at in life, school work, on the subway, right on the train, flying, going to sign a lease for an apartment, there's legal rights that you have as a disabled person there too. So really making sure that you're educating yourself is important when it comes to accommodations.

Michael Leopold: 23:33

Ray, you're familiar with the TSA cares program, I assume I am by no bad who's on our podcast. Yeah, you got a bucket of it, he's told me about it uses it. Just gonna say cares, anyone listening is a is a program that you can use with a lot of different conditions, I think qualify for it. Basically, they assist you in navigating airports, getting to your flay getting through security. So if you have F panic disorder, or certificate anxiety, or tics or anything that could make navigating an airport difficult, that's a program that you might want to consider looking into signing up for. They can meet you at the entrance to the airport, make sure you get through security, I think I think it means you bypass the lines. I don't know but I think there's something about that. Don't quote me on it. But like a personal assistant kind of helping you around. I mean, even things like that is and I bring that up because it's something is like maybe specific is that we have accommodations there. There's a lot there make sure that you carry your your trek card for who NJ CTS or another trade organization. So if you're pulled over by an officer or something like that, you have that documentation there. This could actually lead into a broader conversation around just like what are our rights as people with with diagnoses? And right I think this is something you could speak to, I'd love for listeners to learn what their rights are and then also any other programs that may serve people like us that may be addressed.

Ray Nardella: 24:57

Well, I think of rights as folks with this abilities, I think society in our legal and political system, trying their best to get us on the same level as folks without disabilities, right? Philosophically, that's what disability law entails. Right? It's equitability. It's getting us to the same playing field as our non disabled counterparts. And like I can mention there, there's rights we have in so many different sectors of society, right? We talk a lot about accommodations. I even think of things ranging from economics, right. So there's special savings and checking accounts that folks with disabilities could take out that are unique to folks with disabilities, right? There's I'm not sure the exact functional nature of it. But there's they're unique to folks who have disabilities. And there's, there's benefits involved there. Don't ask me about the economics part of it, because I'm not a math person. But I think there's a little bit higher yield and higher like interest that goes into it. And one of the most sort of typical things we do is we sign a lease for an apartment or a condo or something like that. We have legal rights in place there. When there's a mobility issue, whether it's cognitive or learning disabilities, there's rights that go into what unit we could we could possibly get based on our disabilities. I think of parking, right? There's disability tags, that's a that's a very sort of common example. But there's also more nuanced things like, like sensory friendly parking, there's so many different things nowadays that are sensory friendly, which is fantastic. But I think that's starting to sort of permeate a lot of aspects of society, too. But yeah, that's kind of a word, a word dump of things I can think of now, but know your rights. There's a lot of laws and policies that govern disability rights. And it's not all the ADEA it's not all section 504. There's parts of sexual misconduct laws that that have to do with disability, this part of employment and race and gender discrimination laws. There's a lot, right, making sure you're educated on stuff and doesn't mean you have to go out and be a disability lawyer. But it does mean that like you said, right before you fly, doing your research and say, Oh, TSA cares, this is pretty cool. I can use this to navigate the airport, I can use this to navigate the train station. Fun fact. Oftentimes, when it comes to transportation accommodations, oftentimes isn't the case everywhere. But all you'll need is a disability card for a regional transportation system. And you could use that any transportation system in the country. So for example, in New York City or New Jersey, you might have a disability card for the New Jersey Transit System. You could use that when it comes to accommodations to fly to go on, like ferry boats go on, like the Amtrak and knowing things like that can be really, really helpful and beneficial long run.

Michael Leopold: 27:50

Wow, that's a really good point. Look up those reciprocal, we can use those as well. Other places, I had heard that's true with some of the accessibility disability MetroCard for New York City subways, I can use that Metro North and trains out track. Yeah, keep an eye on that. And actually, you mentioned disability lawyers, if you ever hopefully doesn't happen to any of our listeners. But if you feel you've been wronged or you are in need of a disability lawyer, one place you can go to is the National Disability Rights Network, the nd RN, they have chapters and each of the states it may be called something different. And each state may be a little state specific, specific, but you want to look them up, they can find you private or public attorneys that can also hear your case. See it you even have a case that someone could take on and work with you on they can provide legal counsel and advice but you'll want to look up Protection and Advocacy PNA each state has one and you can find help there to ensure that people with disabilities get their rights.

Ray Nardella: 28:46

Never be afraid to ask an attorney if they'll take you on pro bono. Pro bono means for free for purposes of community service and volunteering attorneys have to meet a certain number of hours per year to stay licensed of pro bono work. So if you like Mike said, If you want a private attorney be like I can't afford a $3,000 retainer. And then $500 An hour thereafter, talk to them and say listen to my case is relatively small. Would you consider taking on pro bono? The worst they can say is no. The best they could say is yes. So also

Michael Leopold: 29:18

check your bar association for your state. I did this one. I live in New York City and in New York State, I went to the New York Bar Association's website and they had a form you could fill out to kind of request an attorney. And I put in my situation I describe what happened in everything. And they connected it. I don't know what back end magic happened. But they connected it to an attorney that they thought could could handle that case. I got like an email from them or something with a confirmation code. They said give this code to them because that's your referral from the ABA and ended up not moving forward with that. But I would assume other states have similar kinds of programs like that. So go on your state's Bar Association website and see if you can fill out a form because they might be able to take that help you take that first step I've been contacting someone affordable and can work with you on this.

Ray Nardella: 30:04

I would also add legal clinics at law schools. Yeah. legal clinics. Yeah. legal clinics could be a fantastic way to do exactly that as well. You meet you meeting with student lawyers who are supervised by a licensed attorney, or, yeah, they could do a lot of that good stuff. Do

Michael Leopold: 30:17

you have any good tips on getting in touch with them? Like I can Google NYU legal clinic, but I don't know who to reach out to? How do I get started doing that? That's a little bit on that.

Ray Nardella: 30:28

It's tough sometimes, because legal clinics aren't always advertising their services. Sometimes they do. But sometimes they don't, I would start by going to the faculty page for a law schools going to select, for example, NYU Law, Rutgers law, whatever the case is, go to their faculty page, in their faculty bios, or their titles, it'll list who the director of an individual clinic is. So if you see Professor, John Smith, Director of the Disability Rights Law Clinic at Rutgers, I would start by reaching out to them, right, because they're usually the ones who could, who can get you in touch with with other folks, especially when there's not a clear cut way to get in contact. Usually clinics won't have like a form he could fill out and say I'm a student attorney get back to me. Usually, legal clinics are more proactive. So they're going out in the community and finding work, they're setting up their legal affairs, they're doing disability paperwork, and IEP stops. But that doesn't mean they won't take on clients who who need their services, especially if they're financially unable. So I'd say start with their, their director, or even if it's a random faculty member in that clinic, it'll list their affiliation in their title on the Law School faculty website. And I would start by emailing them, and usually they're pretty responsive.

Michael Leopold: 31:46

Really good advice in a lighter. No, here, Ray, I know you and your wife are expecting soon. Yes. How are you feeling about all of it?

Ray Nardella: 31:54

Oh, I'm excited. Nervous, happy all the emotions all. All Maslow's emotions. I

Michael Leopold: 32:03

bet I know. I mentioned it's a whirlwind revelations on that. When's the due date?

Ray Nardella: 32:09

She's due August 5. I do think she's gonna go early, though. She's back at me. Now. I think she's gonna go early. So really, anytime between now and early August, we'll have a little daughter. Wow,

Michael Leopold: 32:20

wow. That's wonderful. I wish you wish you and your family the best with that. Thank you probably on your mind just with getting ready to have a child here. This is such a big question and a broad question about how to just ask it. But how do you set a kid up for success? What's your What are your thoughts on? What's the rain ardella philosophy on drinking parents?

Ray Nardella: 32:38

I think my wife would be interested in that. So

Michael Leopold: 32:41

get her advice to

Ray Nardella: 32:44

give me a kid with Terrazza could in general for probably

Michael Leopold: 32:47

I didn't want to just limit it to that. But if you could speak to that, absolutely. I would love to hear how you would raise a kid with Tourette's. But just what are your thoughts on parenting and transitioning?

Ray Nardella: 32:56

Well, I think it's going to be though as you do kind of thing, a lot of my father friends in my circle heart giving me advice. And they're like, honestly, the best piece of advice is just you're gonna you're gonna learn it as you do it, taking it. Second by second, I will say day by day, but ask me more granular than that it's second by second. Me and my wife have amazing partnership and relationship with each other, which is why we're married. We probably wouldn't be married if we didn't.

Michael Leopold: 33:24

Yeah, that's all Yeah. So having

Ray Nardella: 33:26

that partnership and having that relationship in that co parenting relationship is going to be so special and important. And I think it's just knowing that you're gonna make mistakes, right? You're not gonna be perfect as our first self is very much well, we'll make all the mistakes and hurt and then subsequent shoulder will be perfect for us. Yeah. No, I think yeah, the success I think we'll just be loving unconditionally, and co parenting in a good way. And just knowing that we got this,

Michael Leopold: 33:57

thinking back to your own childhood, I mean, a little bit about how your trip began. Definitely

Ray Nardella: 34:02

started showing signs around six or seven. Like a lot of other folks it was chalked up to behavioral right? He's acting out. He's doing all this stuff. That is no more So cognitive behavioral in nature. So I was diagnosed I 12. By the infamous Dr. kins. Fantastic, fantastic practitioner. I've had the pleasure of working with him pretty closely at the academy and otherwise, but I moved on and I was prescribed medications and we did some some work with my middle school and high school but what I always tell folks is i i was so against having it I was like, I do not have it. You might tell me this, you might give me this diagnosis, but there's no way I don't have if I don't care that you're a doctor with 30 years experience. I don't patent rap. That's just me moving my head to certain West and I actually kept that mentality until honestly, early college. It wasn't until this where I was like, Okay, I have this and then I started doing advocacy work, and did my graduate work in counseling. So I studied to read More and more on a scientific level. But I, you know, got diagnosed at 12. But, you know, I don't know what it's like to not have. We

Michael Leopold: 35:08

hear a lot. Yeah. It's all we know. Is there anything that we're not doing any parent bashing or anything here but anything that you've learned from your childhood that you would do differently for your own kid? Let's suppose you have a kid that has text or something in that ballpark? Yeah,

Ray Nardella: 35:24

it's a really introspective question that I have been thinking a lot about. I've talked to my wife and I've talked a lot about it. And I think it's helpful that we know what to look for. Because with me, I was the first one in the family to have I was the I'm still the only one in the family to have it. Although when my brother inevitably listens to this map, I'm pretty sure you have it too. So I'll just I'll just get out. Get that out there and

Michael Leopold: 35:45

chicken right now just.

Ray Nardella: 35:48

But you know, I think looking out for it and being on being able to monitor in a way that we know what to look for. It's going to be so critical. We need Ajay CTS has been amazing, amazing set of resources that I've had in my life since since 10 years ago or so. And I think tapping into those resources if our daughter does have Tourette's is going to be really helpful. And I think my parents said this too, but empowering, empowering my daughter to be ourselves to advocate for herself. And no, she's she's amazing, regardless. And I'm not gonna say my parents didn't do that, because they did delineation between my upbringing. And my daughter's if she does indeed have Tourette's will be that we know what to look for. Right? We know what the spot is, and we know where to go. She does and we know how to treat it and all that stuff. So I'm really thankful epidemiologically I think all of us with Tourette know, this statistics, the chances, so it's something that we're mindful of. And if she has it, we'll deal with it. If she doesn't, we'll still welcome her in the njcu. Yeah,

Michael Leopold: 36:53

she's still allowed in the treads, friends and trucks club here. No, I appreciate you saying that and good wisdom and thoughts. As always, any last minute pieces of wisdom or advice you wish to impart to our audience?

Ray Nardella: 37:06

I say this all the time to our friends at the academy, but be yourself. Being somebody else is boring. And it sucks. Be yourself, know what you need, advocate for it, and know that there are things in place in society to help us and don't be afraid to use them.

Michael Leopold: 37:23

Right. It's been great having you on the podcast.

Ray Nardella: 37:26

I'm very happy to do it. Thank you right.

Michael Leopold: 37:31

Thank you for listening to the uptick, brought to you by The New Jersey Center for Tourette syndrome and Associated Disorders empowering you to stretch the boundaries to live your best life. The NJ center for Tourette syndrome and Associated Disorders NJ CTS, its directors and employees assume no responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, objectivity, or usefulness of the information presented on this podcast. We do not endorse any recommendation or opinion made by any guest nor do we advocate any treatment